| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| drusty |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 18:01:59
We had a run through the rules this afteroon, trying out the various mechanisms -manoeuvre, shooting, fisticuffs- with different figure types, and came up with a couple of queries. (Please bare with us -we're not that familiar with the rules as yet).
1. What happens to a Loose Formation of Angry Villagers when it falls below its 5 figure minimum?
2. Figures with 1 constitution point: If they roll a 1 or 2 on the injury chart, they deduct -1 from manoeuvre, shoot, attack and defend etc. But, if they suffer injury again and roll a further 1 or 2, do they deduct a further -1 from the various above dice rolls... and so on until they can't move, fight etc.?
3. Mounted Cavalry/Dragoons/Flying Witches: We noticed they have a 'fighting distance' in the forward arc of only 1/2". On page 24 it says "fighting distance defines both the area that a model defends and its reach to attack enemy models. Does this mean:
(a) a figure attacking a mounted model from the front has to move to within 1/2" to engage;
(b)or the mounted model has to move within 1/2" of the figure it is attacking to engage from the front?
(c) With either of the above we weren't sure whether the implication was that a figure (say on foot) with a fighting distance of 1" could strike first against a mounted opponent, if they attacked the mounted figure from the front arc?
I think we understand the reasoning for the 1/2" reach, in that the mounted figure is reaching forward over the horse's head to attack, and thus has less reach than to the side.
Many thanks in advance. |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Black Sheep |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 20:43:15
Apologies Big Al. I did misunderstand and thought you meant dead. |
| Big Al |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 18:53:16
quote:
Originally posted by Black Sheep
Hello Big Al
I think it would be very reasonable if players were to agree that during certain encounters a figure can be removed after sustaining a third wound. Although, in our games to date, we do not put a limit on how many times a figure can be wounded. In encounter one, for example, a badly mauled clubman that manages to drag himself to safety could be the survivor that helps win the game. “This man is still alive! He may be able to tell us what has happened here - get the apothecary”.
By remove from play, I didn't mean dead. I was only pre-empting the question being asked in our games. I think that your idea of a survivor is a good one. Being able to take many wounds is also the stuff of legend and a good thing to keep in a skirmish game
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| Black Sheep |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 18:13:18
Hello Big Al
I think it would be very reasonable if players were to agree that during certain encounters a figure can be removed after sustaining a third wound. Although, in our games to date, we do not put a limit on how many times a figure can be wounded. In encounter one, for example, a badly mauled clubman that manages to drag himself to safety could be the survivor that helps win the game. “This man is still alive! He may be able to tell us what has happened here - get the apothecary”.
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| Big Al |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 06:40:44
The only reason for me thinking that the negative modifiers were not cumulative was because of the "vagueness" of the limb that was injured. MAybe I was reading too much into that. So, to take it a step further, how manty times can a figure be injured in this way and how many -1 modifiers can reasonably be applied before removing the figure? Would it be reasonable to say that on his third hit the clubman would be removed from play?
Thanks for your answers and confirmations, Black Sheep! |
| Paul |
Posted - 07 Nov 2011 : 03:00:03
Having re-read the section on fisticuffs I've realised how valuable these forum discussions are!
The Section on Fighting distance and moving into Fisticuffs is actually very clear:
A figure has to move into the 'fighting distance' of an enemy model to initiate Fisticuffs. The figures are then placed in base to base contact and the fight begins.
This does through up the interesting idea that a Pikeman can advance to within the reach of his Pike (2 inches) but outside the 'Fight Distance' of other troops, such as Frontal Cavalry (1/2 inch) without initiating fisticuffs! However as soon as the cavalry model, in this instance, then moves it triggers combat as it is within the fighting distance of the Pikeman.
I do quite like the idea of a pikeman waggling his 15ft stick in a cavalrymans face...'c'mon then if yer 'ard enough'....without actually striking him, but was this intentional in the rules?
If not a simple change would allow fisticuffs to be initiated when a moving figure either entered an enemys 'fighting distance' or moved within it's own fighting distance of an enemy.
May this Samhain cleanse your heart, your soul, and your mind! |
| Black Sheep |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 23:16:21
Hello Paul
I agree with you that injuries are cumulative. I am not sure about that very handy pikeman you are using though. A cavalryman in fisticuffs with a pikeman would 'take part' in the fight and possibly injure or kill the pikeman(page 39). This would occur if the pikeman missed with the pointy end and the cavalryman's attack score beats the pikeman's defend score (p30-31). What do you think? |
| Black Sheep |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 22:35:29
Good Evening Drusty
Thanks again for the questions. I hope you had a good game this afternoon.
Question 3. I think Big Al has covered the answers to your questions about the fighting distances for mounted Cavalry, Dragoons and Witches in flight etc. Your interpretation of our reasons for only giving them a ˝ " fighting distance reach ‘over the horses head’ is completely spot on.
Question 2. Big Al was quite generous regarding the clubman that was wounded twice during your game this afternoon. On page 14, Meet your Marker, it does suggest that the unfortunate clubman would have sustained further injury from the musket shot, giving him a -2 (marker) to future attempts to manoeuvre etc. I hope the clubman knows a good Apothecary.
Question 1. I agree with Big Al. A mob of Angry Villagers will initially consist of 5 to 10 figures but they can keep on going if they are reduced to less than five. Even if they are down to three they are still different to individuals because they must remain within a 2" loose (albeit small) formation and be issued with commands during either the first or last go every turn. If you do want a bit more detail about Angry Villagers, or if you have any further questions, please do keep posting them on the forum.
Have a good week.
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| Big Al |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 21:19:03
Well, Strike First is a specific rule. The Fight Distance is the area you have to enter if you want to join combat. A better way of explaining it might be to say that if you want to avoid contacting an enemy, you have to avoid the Fighting Distance around that enemy figure. This means that you can really squeeze past the front of a horse, taunting it and then running off!
Apart from a figure which has the Strike First ability, which figure strikes first is rolled for (see the box at the top of page 32)It is also mentioned in the second paragraph on page 31. |
| Paul |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 20:39:39
I have been playing the injuries as cumulative where applicable but this may not be the official way to play it.
With figures of different 'fighting distance' fighting each other (again this may not be the intended rule) I've been playing that the fighting distance is the distance that figure can influence with his sword etc...! Therefore, for example, a pikemen can attack a Mounted figure at between 1/2 and 2 inches from the cavalrys front arc but cannot be hit/wounded back at that range!
This is how some other rules play so I just assumed it was the case here..
...wouldn't be the first time i'd got things wrong though
May this Samhain cleanse your heart, your soul, and your mind! |
| drusty |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 20:17:37
Al,
Thanks for your input.
I asked about Villagers because a normal Loose Formation has a minimum of 4 figures; loose 1 and you're back to issuing commands to 3 individual figures.
I think I understand the 1/2" forward fighting distance for mounted troops now. A musketeer (1" fighting distance) sheltering under a pike (2" fighting distance) will still be out of reach of a horseman (1/2" fighting distance) who will be engaged by the pike striking first.
The point about accumulated injuries could go either way. Bookeeping apart, one could soon end up with a number of figures tottering around in various states of decrepitude. But, at the same time, I could think another injury should have some added effect? In our case a Clubman acquired an injury ( 1-2 rolled on injury chart) in a bout of fisticuffs (although he saw off his opponent). In the next turn he was hit by a musket shot and rolled another 1-2. Obviously the odds are 2:1 against rolling injury ( as opposed to death) but it did happen.
Thanks again. |
| Big Al |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 19:37:37
Hi Drusty
How I read the Fighting Distance rule is that this is a form of Zone of Control. In order to enter combat with a figure you must enter that zone of control. So if you wish to attack you need to move into that zone. Now, a cavalryman's zone is 1/2" which means that you have to move closer to the figure in order to get into combat with it. You have to move into the enemy model's zone in order to initiate combat. This doesn't give you the ability to Strike First. That is reserved to certain weapons and conditions. However, I could be wrong.
As to the 1 constitution point, I would assume that the -1 is not cumulative. If it were, your figure would become pretty much disabled. You would also have to start some book keeping and start to note which limbs are injured. It could be argued that you had hit the same linb that was injured previously, which would have little further effect. Also, the rules do not differentiate between arm or leg. So I would say that you can ignore further -1 scores. However, that is just my interpretation and I don't know for sure.
With regard to Angry Villagers, the rule on page 55 says that a loose formation will initially consist of between 5 and 10 figures. This does not mean that it cannot fall below 5 figures, just that it must start the game with 5+ models. |
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